Organic Lawn Care
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| » Forum Index » Organic Lawn Care » Topic: crab grass |
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Posted on 08/24/04 09:09:13 AM |
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plantlines
***** Posts: 138 Reply  |
crab grass
Any solutions for crab grass besides hand pulling? I have it invading weak areas in the lawn and other areas tight with grass in the same lawn. In some of the areas the soil depth seems fine , in others I can understand why the weed is there. My customer is so upset and I have been hand pulling, but where is is tight I can't get it all. Also as the grass gets cut doesn't the seed get spread further? |
Posted on 08/24/04 11:32:49 AM |
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K2
Moderator Posts: 276 Reply  |
Re: crab grass
I've found that the biggest culpret of spreading crabgrass (or any weed seed) is the lawn mowing company that mows wet or damp grass and doesn't clean the underside of his mower. The weed seed stick to the mower deck at one house and drop off another. For my customers with crabgrass problems, I instruct them to bag the clippings at times when crabgrass is producing seed in hopes to pick up as much of the seed as possible. Not sure how effective it is, but it couldn't hurt. The other option is to convince your client that its part of a lawn. 
Sorry, I couldn't resist. |
Posted on 08/28/04 5:48:31 PM |
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Tinker
Old Timer Posts: 119 Reply  |
Re: crab grass
Kevin, Back to Dormant seeding. Crabgrass leaves us with the worst mess after one or two killing frosts when all of it dies. i rip up what I can with thatcher or slicer and seed & feed. In late November as ground freezes up, i hit with a little more seed and another light touch of fertilizer (Organic) Come spring, i don't get in too much hurry to dive on with mower. Another method I use is a lazy man's way of doing fall cleanup. I go over the leaves a coupl of time with lawn mower til I have a cover of fine pieces. If too many, i go over with my vac. A lot of them will get sucked up but a lot of them stay in the grass. Doesn't look great to some people in the spring, but by end of april you can't find any. AND you cannot find any crabgrass in May. Don't try this method if you plan to overseed. Your grass seed won't germinate until all the leaves have broken down. i have not had to use pre-emergent on any lawn where I have done this. I do admit that some of the later germinating weeds will appear where grass is not thick, but I DO NOT GET ANY CRABGRASS. Tinker |
Posted on 08/29/04 9:44:45 PM |
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plantlines
***** Posts: 138 Reply |
Re: crab grass
Tinker explain this again. You mow leaves from the trees and leave on the lawn? I really know very little about grass and am trying to learn from you guys. The crab is an annual but the seeds are still left behind so why do the leaves prevent germination? Light or lack there of? Can I call for more help.....I wish you lived in Massachusetts......I need help up here! Mary |
Posted on 08/30/04 03:58:03 AM |
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Tinker
Old Timer Posts: 119 Reply |
Re: crab grass
Mary, Where in Massachusetts? I grew up in Southern Berkshires. Clayton, just outside of Canaan CT. Decaying leaves will prevent germination. Once they have decayed, they will add organic matter to the soil. The trick of leaving them on the lawn, all broken down into little tiny pieces comes mostly from trying to make cleanup more efficient. An old (departed) friend told me years ago about the germination problem. As I thought about what he told me, put things together and put the fact together with natural laziness and voila, a quicker way to do leaves and never having to apply pre-emergent for crabgrass again. The way we do it, we just mow back and forth across the lawn in one direction, just as we always do during season. When leaves start coming down, we start "double mowing" by mowiing the leave covered areas a second time in another direction. To keep the lawn looking neat, all mowing in one direction, I hit the leafy areas first until I have satisfactorily broken down the leaves and then mow the entire lawn as per usual. sometimes, we mow in such a way as to distribute leaves from one area to the next. In that way, we try to even up the coverage. Doing it this way, we do not have to haul leaves away. With just one helper, I have gone in on a street where a large crew, 4 or 5 men are doing leaves. We will be in and out, doing 4 or 5 lawns while the large crew is still doing one with huge piles waiting for the vac truck to pick up. I sometimes try to find unorthodox methods which take advantage of nature's natural ways. I also use the shredded leaves as shrub bed mulch or around trees. I have one lady client who actually gets angry withy me if I do not bring here a couple of loades of leaves every year, and we take more leaves from her lawn than any other. She must use 15 or 20 yds of them every year. With no fertilizer, weed or bug killers, she has beautiful gardens. I am running into trouble with her the last couple of years as I have sold several other customers on the same plan. We just pile the leaves somewhere off lawn in the fall. In the spring, while their neighbors are buying tons of mulch, we are putting their leaves right back where they were intended by nature. On some lawns, we just vac and pile directly into the bed closet to the mower/vac. At end of service, we spend about 15 minutes kicking the piles around and their mulching is done for the next spring. We have made our job easier while saving customer a pile of money. Money they can spend on other services we can do. Not every customer agrees, but more and more are asking us to do it this way as word spreads around. Tinker |
Posted on 08/31/04 1:17:22 PM |
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plantlines
***** Posts: 138 Reply |
Re: crab grass
Tinker I understand all the stuff about time and money and the way it should be I am with you on that! so I understand mowing the leaves and leaving on the lawn but I currently have alot of crab grass seeds lurking in the lawn! If this really works I will try it or try to get the lawn guys to do it! I live in Rockport, MA |
Posted on 08/31/04 4:03:17 PM |
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Tinker
Old Timer Posts: 119 Reply |
Re: crab grass
Mary, i have tried to answer your question about three times here and each time i somehow manage to erase it. There are some points you want to be aware of. 1 The decaying leaves will inhibit germination of both crabgrass and sod grass. 2 Crabgrass needs full sun to grow. Use you sod grass as a shade medium 3 Crabgrass wants to germinate a little earlier than sod grasses 4 crabgrass will grow into the light if you give it half a chance. 5 BE PREPARED to get some mighty strange looks when you tell your friends or landscapers what you are doing. I'm sure some of these readers are saying "that guy is nuts." Oh well, I've heard it before, but i still don't have any crabgrass where I have spread those leaves. If you want more info about this, why not drop me an E-mail. I am glad to go over it any time but don't always check back into the forum Tinker. |
Posted on 09/16/04 1:21:17 PM |
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Chip
** Posts: 12 Reply |
crab grass
Crabgrass needs light to germinate so the mulched leaves likely prevent light from reaching the weed seeds. A healthy crabgrass plant can produce over 100,000 seeds which can remain dormant for years until the environmental conditions are good for the seeds to germinate. Our 100% organic lawn program relies on corn gluten meal (CGM) in the spring and overseeding in the fall to control crabgrass. We do not have 3 seasons of data to confirm efficacy of CGM but I hope the Iowa State claims are true!
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Posted on 02/01/06 10:22:56 PM |
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scott
* Posts: 1 Reply |
Re: crab grass
you can kill crabgrass with this new product it has been out about 2 years www.crabgrassalert.com |
Posted on 02/02/06 08:09:11 AM |
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K2
Moderator Posts: 276 Reply |
Re: crab grass
It appears the active in this is Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate NaHCO 3. Anybody familiar with this compound? It also contains Cinnamon Bark. MMMmmmm....Cinnamon. Here's the MSDS: http://www.crabgrassalert.com/images/MSDS.pdf |
Posted on 02/03/06 2:12:30 PM |
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Donald Bishop
****** Posts: 487 Reply  |
Re: crab grass
I think most people are. It is also known as baking soda. I have not looked at their site yet but is what you are saying is this stuff is baking soda and cinnamon? scott, welcome aboard. Are you using this product, or selling it, or both? I'm interested to know more about it if you have experience with it. _________________ “…for a man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone.” —Thoreau |
Posted on 02/03/06 3:13:15 PM |
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K2
Moderator Posts: 276 Reply |
Re: crab grass
I've only seen baking soda referred to as sodium bicarbonate but apparently they are the same thing so there ya go. According to the MSDS online its cinnamon and baking soda then. Unless I'm missing something. |
Posted on 02/03/06 5:41:14 PM |
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K2
Moderator Posts: 276 Reply |
Re: crab grass
I did a little reading here and there and have only found instances where baking soda was used on St Augustine grass in Florida. I didn't look very hard but I havent found any use of it north of florida. Apparently it has great results in St Augustine. |
Posted on 02/03/06 6:13:54 PM |
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K2
Moderator Posts: 276 Reply |
Re: crab grass
aaaand here is the response from the manufacturer: The Crabgrass Control product has been thoroughly tested on southern grasses from Southern Calif. to Texas to Florida. It is only labeled for use on southern turf grass such as St.Augustine, Bahia and Bermuda at this time. We have had repeated orders from people who are using it on Tall Fescue, Kentucky Blue and other cool temperature grass types. More testing is underway for northern grass types but for now the manufacturer is not putting it on the label. One thing is for sure, it will kill the crabgrass dead to the root no matter what state it is growing in. It works best on a spot treatment basis. That way if you do damage any of your desired turf it will be localized and the crabgrass will be dead. You should test some small areas first and if it does hurt your turf type, decide if the damage is a total kill or a slight burn that recovers quickly. We do not guarantee the safety of any grass types not listed on the label. |
Posted on 07/07/06 9:41:22 PM |
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K2
Moderator Posts: 276 Reply |
Re: crab grass
Well, I tried it out... It does, in fact, kill crabgrass. Unfortunately it does a lot of damage to bluegrass, rye, and fescue, too. Oh well. |
Posted on 07/09/06 04:10:53 AM |
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Tinker
Old Timer Posts: 119 Reply |
Re: crab grass
A few years ago, I started a lawnfeeding program for a customer I had been doing all other yard care for for many years. they had a commercial feeding program that was no longer working out for them. There were areas that were in quite poor condition and getting worse. One area, especially, was loaded with crabgrass. I rototilled the entire patch and reseeded, unaware of what was about to happen. About the time the new grass was germinationg, a new construction project was about to begin. For the entire growing season i was unable to keep a routine mowing in the prperty and as luck would have it, the C-grass took over where it had been rototilled. The following spring, I went back in with slicer and seeding and thought i was heading for success when all of a sudden, the access to the damage area was torn up for a new septic system. i could not get in to mow on regular basis until sometime in July. Again, t the C-grass monster took over. The following season, i was assurred there would be no more construction. Ha! then came the painters. I was, however, able to work things out with them so i could atleast mow if i would be carefull not to blow clippings on their work. I once again went in with slicer and tore up the area for another seeding. With regular mowing, I still got a pretty good supply of the "monster". Another slicing in the fall and again in following spring, and a good feeding program, within one more season of thickenning grass crowding out all thin areas, i finally could claim to have sent the C-grass packing. Things looked terrific and i had a happy customer. (Yes, there are still some of them with patience out there) Along about mid august, i noticed a few yellow patches. I pulled on the yellow and was rewarded with, as suspected, i nice clean patch of "carpet" in my hand. withing days, i had patches all over the yard. Well, that problem was cleaned up over two more seasons of Milky Spore applications. Only problem now is that the moles don't understand the grubs are no longer active and they are still invading. Oh well, there is NO MORE CRABGRASS and I cannot find ANY grubs, so something has been accomplished. To get back to the subject of this discussion, the primary solution to the crabgrass problem anywhere is to develope a thick grass cover. Let the grass deteriorate and you will find crabgrass returning. You can kill the crabgrass with chemicals or mechanical means, prevent germination with the mulched leaves I mentioned in an earlier post, but if you do not develope a dense sod cover, you will find the monster returning. Those seeds will stay dormant for thousands of years. Just give them a proper chance, and they WILL germinate Tinker |
Posted on 08/02/06 10:36:34 PM |
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Gerry
***** Posts: 115 Reply |
Re: crab grass
Crab grass is annual and will die off by itself. You need to use Corn Gluten Meal twice a year for a few years to get control. Apply a minimum of 20 lbs per 1000 sq ft in the spring when the Forsythia bush blooms and then again in early to mid August in Zone 5 to catch a second wave of crab grass seeds. The more CGM you use, the faster you gain control over the weed seeds. This in conjunction with mowing your lawn as high as your lawn mower will go will also help in preventing weed seeds from germinating. When your grass is tall, it creates shade, and shade helps to prevent seeds from germinating. Also proper watering is also required, deeply but infrequently. |